One of the more frequently mentioned suggestions for avid Google Reader users is the addition of comments to the service, so RSS readers could respond to blog posts, either directly from the reader and back to the originating blog, or within the Google Reader community itself, in effect, becoming a social network. But while Google Reader has not yet enabled comments, other services are, and it seems the excitement of adding this capability is hardly universal - and its opponents have gone so far as to call it "outrageous" or "theft".While the discussion around where a blog's comments should reside has raised its head before, especially around services like FriendFeed, (See: Sarah Perez of Read Write Web: Blog Comments Still Matter) it flared up again this afternoon when I had (innocently, I thought) highlighted how one friend's blog post from earlier in the week was getting a lot of comments, and had become the most popular story on Shyftr, a next-generation RSS feed reader that enables comments within its service.
While I had hoped the author (Eric Berlin of Online Media Cultist, who I highlighted on Monday and like quite a bit) would be pleased to see his post had gained traction, the reaction was not what I had expected. He said he was uneasy about seeing his posts generate activity and community for somebody else. Another FriendFeed user called it "content theft" and said "if they ever pull my feed and use it there, they can expect to get hit with a DMCA take-down notice". (See the discussion here)
I can see how content creators can feel threatened or wary of services who leverage full RSS feeds, or might actually have a case if they have publicly asked for no repurposing of their content, via Creative Commons or other methods. But I also see that the whole idea of reading feeds in isolation, without engaging, is going to soon be something of the past. AssetBar, Social|Median and Shyftr have been among the first to add comments in their site. Fav.or.it, via Disqus, offers the ability to post comments to the originating blogs. FriendFeed, RSSMeme and many, many others offer links to the content but contents on their site. And that's not even touching on the social news sites like Slashdot, Digg, Reddit, etc., where comments and community are generated, essentially through leveraging third party headlines.
As a blogger, I am a content creator. I don't want my content stolen, or reposted without attribution or under somebody else's name. But I am also a huge advocate of RSS and continuing to adapt where the conversation is being held. Just as my blog's RSS views have undoubtedly eclipsed my blog page views, I would not be surprised to see that more comments on my posts might eventually live outside of my blog. It would behoove me and other bloggers to be aware of the other places the conversation will be taking place, and to engage there, in my opinion, rather than railing against the continued evolution of how we're consuming content and engaging online.
Even the conversation about this issue has escaped the blogosphere. Eric, on FriendFeed writes, "It's slightly troubling that this conversation is taking place here instead of on one of our blogs," but it's not so much troubling in my mind, but instead requires a changing mindset.
The Web as a whole has clamored for full RSS feeds, not partial, so we don't have to return to the originating site. Some of us have just as loudly asked for comments and conversations to enter the world of the RSS feed reader. Now that we're starting to see what it's like, maybe it's not what we had fully anticipated. But it's the way things are headed, and rather than label innovators like Matt Shaulis (Twitter | FriendFeed) and Dave Stanley of Shyftr (Twitter | FriendFeed) as outrageous or possibly illegitimate, we should engage and speak up about what we think is right. As for the developers who enable these services, there are definitely ways they can help raise the visibility of the practice - through e-mail alerts, trackbacks, or even giving the option to opt out. But we'll be seeing this more and more going forward. I promise you that.
30 comments:
But worrying about comments in the context of traffic is ridiculous because as a percentage of people who will read something, the % who will comment is tiny. On most blogs, it's less than one half of one percent of readership.
I think it's better to focus and worry about the other 99.5%, but that's just me. Then again, I'm part of the few, the proud, the .05%!
Louis, I'd also really be curious to know what you think about this. You're right, users spent forever clamoring for full RSS feeds, why is there suddenly a rush to use Friendfeed, when it takes my full feed and turns it into a headline-only feed? Why would anyone voluntarily subscribe to that instead of my blog feed? I've written about this on my blog and no one really had a response. Or maybe the rresponse was posted on one of those sites I'm not a member fo? ;)
I've looked at it from the user's perspective, as in giving users more power to switch their social apps and remain plugged in to their social network on FriendFeed (http://tinyurl.com/29cu6k). But this is the other side of the coin - the content or app producers losing control.
All because of RSS and APIs.
I love FriendFeed, and I want everyone to use it plenty - I learn so much. It does seem a reasonable question can be asked about the effect of a FriendFeed on the content producers and application makers. May ultimately be resolved as a non-issue, but worthy of a conversation.
Wordpress can display track back links right along with comments.
It would seem you could easily build a standard and just have an rss reader ping the blog to add the comment.
personally I can't wait for google reader to have integrated comments. As long as I can get notified in some way that there is comment action for my blog on google reader I'll be a happy blogger.
A couple of things will happen. I'll either a) give up or b) close comments and just be more magazine-y.
Sure that's against the sacred Rules du Blog, but I don't know.
Also, RSS is by its very design able to be slurped up by anything that can parse it. Maybe that's why we make so much noise on all these social nets-- so that we can cement and emblazon our 'personal brands' in your head (and of course Google), that there will be no hesitation who made the content.
Then we can set it free (mentally, anyway, it always has been free).
@spin
Who Owns This Conversation?
http://pulse.plaxo.com/pulse/events/show/43867506
i'm curious - should everyone who comments have to read all previous comments, first - as a matter of common courtesy? some blogs have 200+ comments on a post - many of which are brain-dead - should i have to scroll through them, reading them all, or should i just be able to post my comment and jet?
It links up blogs that have Disqus so you can join the conversation right inside Google Reader.
some people will e-mail about it. You won't see it. Some people will discuss it on forums you've never heard of, etc.
Do you actually have a responsibity to track down the conversations on ten different sites (and that seems to be growing) or just the desire to do so?
to see shyftr compared to scrapers is heartbreaking to me as a devout lover of web 2.0 (buzzwords and all)... the only advertisements you see there are provided directly from the feed publishers themselves from feedburner, pheedo, etc...
what others see as comment fragmentation i see as comment liberation... i see a lot of new people with voice standing in an unfamiliar and changing environment (i've been addicted to the web since 1995)...
to the bitchmemers of the weekend: lose the digg buttons and the technorati reaction links (both begging for external interaction) before you start to get too loud... attempt to embrace the culture YOU are trying to run a business on... a business that can ONLY exist on republishing that culture (albeit with your own "comments")... i don't know... a lot of mirror looking needs to happen over the weekend. it's never fun to see guilty fingers pointing.
great post louis!
I'm more concerned about cases where someone scrapes content from another blog without clearly attributing it to the source content. This happened to me earlier this week ( http://snurl.com/2478s ). A blog with a very similar URL (Twitter related) started pulling in my content (via RSS) to their tumblog. The posts included links back to my site but, at first glance, it looked like the content was created by the site that was doing the scraping. Tumblr staff resolved the issue in less than 24 hours and the guy who was scraping the content is no longer pulling in the feed.
Blogs can be a relection of our true thoughts, news, businesses, gossip or all of the above.
The well written and informative sites will rise to the top, just as the most informative or most entertaining websites did.
Great stuff (and having a little fun! :)
Charlie
Alex Hammer
http://techleaders20.blogspot.com
just like the privacy thing, everyone can know anything about anyone
omniscience in form is the future
It is a move to integrate 'around' the person rather than the sites on which the person 'appears.'
http://www.pr-squared.com/2008/04/the_broken_conversation.html
Ladies and Gentlemen, The Conversation Has Left The Building - http://tinyurl.com/3xg7ra
Secondly because our platform is open - our API allows third parties to distribute comments - so if 'shyftr' want to come talk to us so that their comments go back to the blog - thats fine with us.
For me it is about the customer and not the blog owner, we need remove the barriers involved in all our wonderful 'technology' and make commenting as integrated and simple as possible, this means long term making all services interconnect (dataportability.org) - so that all services allow the original content owner to get the attention it deserves.
Also, I think commenting can lead to community. It seems unfortunate that part of a blogs community would be on FriendFeed while another part is on the original blog and other parts are scattered about and they can't interact with each other. There should be some central base for comments (which seems a logical role for the original blog to fill) and if others want to pull comments from them / push comments to them, great!
I think it's time for an RSS read/write comments API. This would give users the ability to read and post comments through RSS readers without stealing content from the authors. I believe users would be a lot more likely to post comments to blogs if they could read/write them in place from within their newsreader of choice.
Blogs have been built for decentralized discussion. Why? Because a blogger doesn't comment on another bloggers blog - he often prefers to do his own post on his own blog and let the originator know about it!
Nobody has been complaining about this distributed discussion all over the web yet. In fact this was always seen as a big advantage.
The technology to bring these separate strings of discussion together on the original blog is called Pingback or Trackback. It's prooven, it's reliable and there are lots of open source libs out there to implement it.
The question is: why do these services don't use trackbacks anyway?
Shameless plug: lifestrea.ms, our advanced lifestreaming service, was taking the trackback approach for comments from beginning on (meaning since Nov. 2007 :) ). Not only because sending trackbacks to the original source of content has benefits for bloggers, but also for the users / readers, because they surely wanna let the writer of a post know about their comment. For the user it makes no sense to hide his thoughts in an closed external network...
I think, more than anything, that is the crux of the problem. We need solid rules and ethical guidelines. These will come from the courts, and cases like these.
Maybe soon we get back to creating content rather than just deciding what to do with it...
Maybe they could feature a preview of the latest few comments, with no posting abilities. A one-way browser (rss reader) should not be creating content in isolation.
My apologies for not commenting, earlier. And thank you for taking the time to respond to me over on Valeria's blog.
I was wrong in my initial reaction; the technology that separates comments from the original blog post are simply an extension of the "newspaper" model. In our day to day lives, we comment on the activities of celebrities, politicians and others with enthusiasm. The informer of these shenanigans rarely gets to know what we discuss - unless they magically restrict who can comment, and where. As no one has figured out how to do that, we're left with the current situation.
Which is basically that many of these comment companies have figured out how to make the web catch up to the conversations' people have been having for millennia.
It would be nice if they did some sort of "traceback" mechanism - either popping the comments into the original post, or some sort of notification, but that's all it would be: nice. Polite, even. Implementing such shouldn't be too difficult a task for the bright folk running around the web, these days. :-)
Carolyn Ann
At the moment it doesn't solve the problem of other hijacking it at least provides a platform to potentially agregate all comments for a blog as well as giving the commenter a degree of ownership/tracability.
If the API and platform opens up more so that these services can utilize the Platform as a Service all will be good.
Of course then there's the issue of rival services (Intense Debate, CoComment etc) and monetization....